Thanks for the fresh price which i had not viewed in advance of

I am not sure should you have accessibility Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or perhaps not, because it is actually written as the a reference having Americans having colonial ancestors away from Plantagenet descent. He brings among his proofs one to Joanna try brand new mother of Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn offered the latest functions out-of Knighton and you will Norton castles within the Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer when he and you can Gwladus was in fact partnered. It would have been illegal having Llewelyn to give Joanna’s possessions to help you an enthusiastic illegitimate child (otherwise person who was not an infant out of Joanna). New properties of Norton and you will Knighton stayed regarding the Mortimer relatives after that. Brand new offer are, “When the fresh new King promote Home so you can one which have a beneficial woman regarding their kindred into the frank marriage, and the woman dyeth in the place of question, the man from the Leaders case will maybe not wait getting his lifetime, since lady caused the the latest provide.” This means, the latest characteristics might have reverted returning to the crown ahead of it might have been provided to an infant who was simply not Joanna’s.

Hey, Marilyn, I did not get access to the latest Plantaganet Ancestry from the Doug Richardson, however, performed have access to the numerous talks connected with him and you may their ideas together with other genealogists (certain to have sexy Guadalajaran girls your, but some together with facing). I do believe, as i stated in my early in the day paper, one to exactly what shifts they for my situation(Joanna as the mommy out of Gwladus), ‘s the import of your characteristics you discuss so you’re able to Ralph de Mortimer upon their ed a couple of the youngsters ‘John’ and you may ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose in the event that Gwladus had been the newest ded their unique children therefore. In spite of the objections amongst the eminent genealogists I mention over, you will find a standard consensus you to Gwladus Ddu will be fairly defined as brand new child away from Llywelyn ab Iorwerth because of the Joanna, child (then legitimised) of John, Queen away from The united kingdomt. Allow me to simply take so it opportunity to go along with Sharon (within the an email to me) you to definitely Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian is actually by Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, thereby getting bloodstream sister so you’re able to Gruffudd. I base which partially on a modern listing found in ‘Regal or other Historical emails Illustrative of your own leadership out of Henry 111,’ modified by the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol 1. On profiles five hundred-503 ‘s the transcript out-of a unique letter dated Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, so you can King Henry 111. In this page, Marshall covers their siege of your own castles regarding Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. He directories the people he based in the castle O’Realy whenever it surrendered, they provided: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre ainsi que matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi ainsi que Thomae ….” I am advised that the means we have right here Gwenllian, daughter regarding Prince llywelyn, just who seems to be named ‘sibling of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd are the new illegitimate child from Llywelyn, it is taken one ‘de- patre et matre’ means Gwenllian and you may Gruffudd was in fact full blood sister and sibling. Got Gwenllian become Joanna’s child and that King Henry’s relative, seriously Marshall might have mentioned on that fact? This failure away from de- Lacy’s partner since the king’s relative, was drawn as close particular proof you to definitely Gwenllian wasn’t this new child of your king’s brother Joanna.

These features was in fact element of Joanna’s maritagium regarding their particular father King John

Ken: Thanks for that regard to Gwenllian. I am most certainly not a professional genealogist, however, I do many research on my own traces. I think a number of the “pros” are incredibly jealous and you can angry of each and every most other (at least it seems that means in a number of of the things they post). You will find issues that we’re not going to know with full confidence in the members of new MA while they failed to keep vital records such as we do now, very genealogists and you may historians have to use their utmost wisdom during the sorting anything aside. In reality, public information is actually a fairly “new” style – of numerous states in the usa failed to keep records of births and you will deaths till the early 1900’s. I belong to several descent communities where I have had to establish eleven otherwise twelve years, and trust in me it is hard. So i really see the trouble of evaluating MA ancestors. (And also the sad question is the fact that facts that are offered towards the MA is of your royalty and you may nobility – absolutely nothing whatsoever to the common some one).